Letting the Bible speak without any pre-conceived ideas may be hard to do, especially if you've been a JW. But there are numerous scriptures showing you can't earn salvation. It is truly a gift. Titus 3:4-8 says over and over again, that salvation doesn't come from works. Romans 11:6 says if it is by works, it wouldn't prove to be by underserved kindness. The works spoken of in the Bible are reflected in our daily lives and how we treat others, if it be Christlike or not.
Little Bo Peep
ok, lets have a discussion about where we all came from, evolution or creation?
(or whatever you beleive in of course) every one put down there main reasons, along with reasonable facts and backup as to why.. .
hopefully this doesnt start to many arguments, lol.. .
I personally don't believe I could look at the universe, both the vastness beyond our earth, as well as the universe under the microscope, with all it's detail preciseness, and think it all happened. I definitely believe in creation, and a creator. After all, I think even evolutionists would have to agree, it all got a start somewhere...even the "big bang" theory had to have a beginner. I do know there are many things that have mutated (evolved?) from one thing to another. Also, if Jehovah didn't create animals to eat meat (as the WT says), then they must have evolved to have the need to eat only meat etc. (Where would we be if coyotes didn't eat mice, etc...the world would be overflowing with mice). I mentioned on an earlier post, that Russell believed in theistic evolution, that God let the waters "swarm" with living creatures, not necessarily creating each life form individually, but started the process and let it go from there. I believe he thought that the only life form Jehovah directly created was man. You can find information on that in "The Truth Shall Make You Free" 1943, p65. Also, Ken Raines wrote, "The Watchtower's Endoresment of Theistic Evolution", which gave quite a few references to older publications indicating Russell did believe this way.
Little Bo Peep
message: .
i was just told that the 2007 years text is (zephaniah 1:14) 14 the great day of jehovah is near.
it is near, and there is a hurrying [of it] very much.
It's interesting to note when Zephaniah was written, at least according to the NWT, about 648 bc. It has amazed me how nearly all of the Old Testament dealt with the nation of Israel and Judah, and their coming destruction, then their deliverance by Jehovah. It adds to the confusion that the Bible books are not in chronological order. Even the WT says these prophecies are dealing with Israel and Judah, but then adds a second fulfillment, and sometimes a third.
Little Bo Peep
what do the jw's believe makes people saved?
what is wrong with the non-jehovah's witness's life that makes them need salvation?
*** w50 6/1 176 Letter ***
The Battle of Armageddon will be likewise a physical catastrophe to this present evil world, and not something just spiritual. The ark of salvation that we enter is not a literal ark but is God’s organization;
*** w81 11/15 21 'Stay Awake and Keep Your Senses' ***
18 We can expect a similar expansion of our preaching activity now, at this climax of the ages. No doubt, before the "great tribulation" is finished, we will see the greatest witness to God’s name and kingdom in the history of this world. And while now the witness yet includes the invitation to come to Jehovah’s organization for salvation...
*** w83 2/15 12-13 You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth-But How? ***
A third requirement is that we beassociatedwithGod’schannel, his organization. God has always used an organization. For example, only those in the ark in Noah’s day survived the Flood, and only those associated with the Christian congregation in the first century had God’s favor. (Acts 4:12) Similarly, Jehovah is using only one organization today to accomplish his will. To receive everlasting life in the earthly Paradise we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it.
*** w90 11/1 26 Our Relative Subjection to the Superior Authorities ***
We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry—be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization. (OOPS! Where did this come from???)
*** w93 9/15 22 They Compassionately Shepherd the Little Sheep ***
But if we were to draw away from Jehovah’s organization, there would be no place else to go for salvation and true joy.
I hope this posts OK. I've never tried the "copy" "Paste" from Word to here???
Little Bo Peep
the book study tonight was all about abstaining from blood.
the usual nonsense which we've all heard before, but i thought i'd share some amusing comments from the completely misinformed and delusional brothers and sisters there tonight.
i wish jwfacts, td or any of the other board blood experts could have been there tonight to hear this, now that would have made a good study!
The sad thing in all this is, they have all the JW's so confused by their vague statements that people like my mom-in-law will check "NO" for all the boxes on the medical directive, or whatever it's called now. One brother on the hospital liason committee told my daughter, the Wt wouldn't have anything on the directive that would be wrong, so you could check "YES" to everything and still be safe. It's a joke that JW's don't take blood, because in fact by taking fractions, they are taking blood, and using blood that hasn't been poured out on the ground.
Little Bo Peep
do any people trying to fade out of the organization have any trouble coming to this forum and going to the kingdom hall?.
specific problems might be:.
1. wanting to use acronyms or names from the jwd (jaydub, borg, etc.
One of the last times I went in service, there weren't any brothers to give prayer, and I was the only only one with a head covering (neck scarf). Well, at that time, I had really come to realize how much JW's didn't give Jesus his due respect. In my prayer I really talked a lot about Jesus. After my prayer, all was "silent"...think everyone was wondering why I talked so much about Jesus. Then the very last time we went in service, it was late fall, and our "out of town" work was coming to an end (we had used that as an excuse why we missed so many meetings and service). The PO's wife said to me, "maybe you'll make more meetings and service now". I told her "we'll see", and that's the last time she ever spoke to me. When I began getting so sick to my stomach at meetings we'd have to leave, we decided to "cut the cord"...what a relief. That was nearly 4 years ago, and we've never had a phone call or visit...how's that for brotherly love?
Little Bo Peep
this is my first post, some of you have read my hubby's story - agent smith - anyway i was just wondering if i should write a letter to disassociate myself or just leave things as they are.
i have not been to meetings for about 8yrs but have only just come to realize what a load of rubbish the jw's teach.
now that i have read "crisis of conscience" i have no doubt that jw's are corrupt.
A friend recently sent in a DA letter. Her mother, clear across the country, was notified by ??? She promptly emailed this ex-JW to inform her she never wanted to hear from her daughter again. Personally, I am torn. On the one hand, I want to write a DA letter, but on the other hand, why make it easy for them? I've had questions for 4 years, and no one has bothered to even call. I sometimes feel I'd be playing their "game". It's a very personal decision each must make. Thank goodness we are well beyond judging another by the choice they make, should it be different than what we might decide.
Little Bo Peep
a friend sent me pictures of justus lipsius' book on the cross which is referenced in the new world translation and the kingdom interlinear translation.
i've converted the pics to a pdf file and it's now online at:.
http://www.catholic-forum.com/members/popestleo/justuslipsiuscruce.pdf.
The latest "blood" booklet from 1990, page 7, has a picture of the early Christians in the arena, waiting to be devoured by lions. In the background, lining the edges of the arena are other Christians, all handing on crosses, not upright stakes, but crosses. Don't know how they missed that one.
Little Bo Peep
i am an "active" jw.
i serve.
give talks.
Out last meetings were about 3 years ago. We exited the WT, telling our children and mother-in-law we wouldn't be going to the summer convention, and why. We weren't shunned, but couldn't talk to them for a couple of years. Since then, out daughters and families came out (2 of our 3 sons are out, but one won't even acknowledge us anymore because of all the gossip), and several other families are also out. The last few meetings we went to, I got physically ill and we had to leave...finally had enough of the lies and deception, even though those from the platform didn't realize they were spreading them, just as we didn't. Congradulations on hanging in there.
Little Bo Peep
i don't really understand who really are the beneficial owners of the watchtower society and all its assets.. so i pose this question: if the watchtower society closed down tomorrow and all the assets were sold off, who would get the billions of dollars?
the wts shareholders??
or are there jw companies which are "owed" huge amounts by the society, and so all the cash would simply go to these "companies" to pay off the "debt"?.
My husband and I've had this same discussion. It seems the lawyers are "in control". If you look at the history, Rutherford, the Societys lawyer, manipulated things so he became "el-presidente" even though Russel's will stipulated differently. He was in control, and no one else knew different since he knew the legal in's and out's. Maybe that's what would happen now, the lawyers would get everything, and who else would know any better?
Little Bo Peep
